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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

0:00:02

Alix McCabe: Pop quiz. When you hear the word risk, do you immediately assume it's a bad thing?

00:00:07

Justin Seedorf: Risk is traditionally defined as an uncertainty that could have an adverse effect leading to loss, harm or damage.

00:00:14

Alix McCabe: But what if you could make a mental shift and retrain yourself to focus on the opportunity instead of the risk?

00:00:22

Oprah: I always love those moments when I sit down to talk to somebody and they say something that makes me look at life or a situation in a completely different way.

00:00:31

Alix McCabe: Yes, that's Oprah, talking about her favorite term from Merriam- Webster's 2012 New Words List.

00:00:38

Oprah: A moment of sudden realization, inspiration, insight, recognition or comprehension, light bulb, bing, bing, bing, bing, and the little hairs on your arms stand up. That is an aha moment.

00:00:54

Alix McCabe: And those aha moments can be critical to success in the business world. Let's explore why on the season premiere of...

00:01:01

Audio: Wheel of Risk.

00:01:04

Alix McCabe: Welcome to Wheel of Risk, proudly presented by Allianz Trade. I'm your host, Alix McCabe. I cannot believe we're already on Season 3, and in honor of that milestone, we're going to do things a little differently. The podcast is still called Wheel of Risk, but we're going to focus more on the positive. Think of it like Wheel of Opportunity. Don't worry, on every episode, we'll still spin the old wheel to pick a topic and then provide our usual combination of expert insights and actionable advice to help you keep your business solvent, secure and well ahead of the competition. To help me kick things off today, I'm really pleased to welcome a fan favorite back to Wheel of Risk. Justin Seedorf, come on down. Justin is a Southwest Regional Vice President here at Allianz Trade Americas, and a regular contributor to our podcast. Thank you so much for being here, Justin.

00:01:57

Justin Seedorf: It's my pleasure to be back. I'm excited.

00:01:59

Alix McCabe: You are officially a fan favorite now, how does this make you feel?

00:02:03

Justin Seedorf: Well, okay, so officially, what does that mean? Was there a vote cast or was there a poll taken?

00:02:09

Alix McCabe: It was completely arbitrary that we put that in there, but we wanted to build you up from the beginning of the podcast. So did it work?

00:02:16

Justin Seedorf: Absolutely. I felt great.

00:02:18

Alix McCabe: Good. That was the aim. Okay. Justin, in light of the fact that you're a fan favorite, would you do me the honor of spinning the wheel for the very first time this season?

00:02:27

Justin Seedorf: Here we go.

00:02:30

Alix McCabe: Whoa, that was a good spin. Excellent. You've landed on the Eureka Effect, a perfect topic for our season premiere.

00:02:39

Justin Seedorf: Nice, nice. But listen, do you mind if I actually bring in some backup?

00:02:43

Alix McCabe: No, not at all. You're welcome to call a friend. Who do you have in mind?

00:02:47

Justin Seedorf: Well, I actually was thinking about this. I know the perfect person.

00:02:52

Al Herrera: Hello.

00:02:54

Justin Seedorf: Hey, Al, it's Justin from Allianz Trade. Listen, I'm down here at the Wheel of Risk Studio and I could really use your help.

00:03:02

Al Herrera: Justin Seedorf, the fan favorite? Absolutely, I'd love to help out.

00:03:07

Justin Seedorf: Great. Thanks for rushing over. Alix, listen, this is Al Herrera. He's a leadership coach. He's a clarity expert. He's based here in Dallas, Texas.

00:03:23

Alix McCabe: Al, nice to meet you. Thank you for coming here to Wheel of Risk.

00:03:26

Al Herrera: Absolutely. Alix, this was my pleasure. I'm honored that Justin reached out to me.

00:03:30

Alix McCabe: Okay. Then start us off. Tell us a little bit about who you are and what it is that you do, Al.

00:03:35

Al Herrera: Yeah, so my name's Al Herrera. I am really a leadership coach and focused a lot on individuals beating down limiting beliefs and reaching their full potential, which tends to help me leverage optimism in the opportunities. And then I help organizations as well with regard to leadership in general, and focus a lot on team building culture and how to move the needle forward.

00:04:01

Alix McCabe: Excellent. I cannot wait to pit you and Justin against each other.

00:04:04

Justin Seedorf: Oh, great.

00:04:06

Al Herrera: Oh, I'm excited. I'm excited.

00:04:12

Alix McCabe: There's a long- running debate in the business world about what the term risk really means and whether it's always only about negative things, but perspective means everything. And as we heard from our buddy Oprah off the top, sometimes it just takes a mental shift, a eureka moment, to see things in a whole new light. So let's start with some definitions. And keep in mind, guys, I will be awarding you completely meaningless points based on your answers. Okay? So the pressure is on. Al, we're going to start with you. How would you define risk and opportunity?

00:04:45

Al Herrera: Risk, I tend to think of a negative thought that is overwhelmingly present when presented with a specific situation. And then opportunity would be the best possible outcome when looking at the same exact situation.

00:05:04

Alix McCabe: Like two sides to a coin.

00:05:06

Al Herrera: Oh, yeah.

00:05:08

Alix McCabe: Okay.

00:05:08

Al Herrera: It's brilliant.

00:05:10

Alix McCabe: Thanks. Justin, what about you?

00:05:13

Justin Seedorf: Yeah, so I tend to think about risk and I think a lot of people do, or should, as the potential downside of a scenario. Most people associate it with potential loss. And then opportunity, you can take the same scenario and you can look at what do you have to gain, what is the upside?

00:05:40

Alix McCabe: Okay, so bonus points, if either of you can tell me the origins of the word eureka.

00:05:41

Justin Seedorf: I think it's a German word.

00:05:44

Al Herrera: I'm going to take a guess at Greek.

00:05:46

Alix McCabe: Definitely Greek. It is. It's attributed to ancient Greek, mathematician and inventor, Archimedes. Our friend Archimedes, remember him? Okay, moving on. While we're talking definitions, it's also worth making a distinction between known and unknown risks. Right, Justin?

00:06:03

Justin Seedorf: Right, an unknown risk and a known risk, they actually are very different. Because if you know what your risk is or a known risk, then you've got the perspective to be able to analyze it, to make decisions based off of what you do know. It's the unknown risk that usually get people into trouble because many times an unknown risk means you don't even realize that there is a risk there.

00:06:34

Al Herrera: I agree with Justin on that. I think unknown risks, it sounds like something similar to worry. I mean, 85% of the things that we worry about never happen, and the 15% of things that we should, we rarely think of. So in actuality it catches you by surprise.

00:06:52

Justin Seedorf: Yeah.

00:06:52

Alix McCabe: So I guess another way to look at it is fear of loss versus hope for gains. So how do you make the mental shift from one state to another and sort of embrace that growth mindset, Al?

00:07:03

Al Herrera: Yeah, from my perspective, growth versus fixed mindset specifically is fixes all the external, right? Everything outside of what you can do. So if you just walk into situations, really, with no knowledge, then that risk becomes bigger. I think the way you shift that is challenge your thought about what the risk is, educate yourself a little bit and prepare for what it is you're coming against. Then you can overcome that.

00:07:29

Alix McCabe: Justin, any thoughts on that?

00:07:30

Justin Seedorf: Yeah. I look at the first word of each one of those statements, right? Fear and hope. Think about how people respond from fear. Parts of your brain literally shut down and your body almost goes into like you've heard the fight or flight mode where you're not really actually making decisions and sometimes you're just reacting. And while that can potentially save you in the short term, it can actually end up costing you in the long term. Whereas hope, hope is a belief in something that hasn't yet happened. And so when I think about taking action or making a decision based off of hope, that's a much more positive and much more forward- thinking way to do things versus just reacting out of fear.

00:08:17

Alix McCabe: I feel like I should tell this to my kids.

00:08:19

Justin Seedorf: Maybe you should.

00:08:20

Alix McCabe: These are wise insights. So both of you in your respective fields spend a lot of time face- to- face with clients, and I'm wondering, have you actually witnessed any of their eureka moments firsthand? Can you actually see that metaphorical light bulb flicker on?

00:08:37

Al Herrera: I do see it. I live for those aha moments for people when, for example, with regard to just emotional intelligence, being able to become self- aware and then self- manage. Speaking to someone the other day about the way that she managed herself and she says, "Well, I didn't say anything, so I managed myself well." And I said, "Well, your face changed dramatically." So the reason why people are telling you to change your face is because it shows all over you what you're thinking. And so the aha moment for her popped up and dramatically. She said she practiced it over the next two weeks and she saw a dramatic difference in how she was received. So for her it means the difference between growing in an organization versus being stagnant and left behind, and being respected differently with that aha, eureka moment.

00:09:28

Alix McCabe: That's really cool. Justin, any light bulbs in your experience?

00:09:33

Justin Seedorf: Oh my goodness. Yeah, we see it all the time. We work a lot with people in organizations that actually manage credit risk, and there's a tendency for those types of individuals to have a specific mindset, and it's very much that fear of loss, I need to avoid, avoid, avoid. And time and time again, the "risk" they are trying to avoid is what we just talked about, that known risk, right? They actually have all the information they need to make a good decision, but they are ignoring what they don't know about things that they think are just fine, but the reality is they have a significant risk there. And there have been multiple times where we've been able to pull back the curtain on some unknown risks where they literally said, "Oh, my gosh, I can't believe that I've been operating the way I've been operating, not knowing this information." And then when you present them with data, they have that aha moment, the light bulb goes off, they're like, "Whoa, this is actually information I should be using when making decisions and I can't believe I haven't been doing it before."

00:10:42

Alix McCabe: That's pretty cool. That's powerful to witness that and experience that with someone. I think about my own life, back in 2015, I had a business opportunity, it was a work opportunity actually, to move overseas to Paris. And I had a very short time window within which I could decide whether I was going to do it, and there was definitely an opportunity attached to it, but my brain went immediately to all of the reasons why I should not do it. I just bought this house, I have a dog, I don't speak fluent French, whatever it might be. And so my brain immediately defaulted to fear. Okay? So my question for Al is I ended up doing it and finding the opportunity in it, thankfully, but why do we tend to default to fear?

00:11:25

Al Herrera: There's actually science behind it and there's research based on the fact that 80% of your thoughts go negative right away. So it's a self- preservation mechanism that our brain naturally uses. And in actuality, not only do 80% of your thoughts go negative, but 95% of those thoughts are now repetitive. So it's really interesting that, if you don't have an interruption, then it stays there. Your mind is constantly trying to protect you from any risk at all. What it doesn't do is it doesn't look for the opportunity unless something comes in between and disrupts that. And that's just the brain's way of protection, when in actuality there is no saber- toothed tiger lurking around the corner. This is just an opportunity that you might be missing because you put on blinders.

00:12:12

Alix McCabe: So it's about disrupting that negative thought pattern.

00:12:15

Al Herrera: Absolutely.

00:12:16

Alix McCabe: How do you train yourself to take a more pragmatic, less fearful approach to changing business conditions?

00:12:24

Justin Seedorf: A big part of it is data, is information. To Al's previous point, we actually have to let the data do its work. We actually have to allow it to get us out of that negative mindset and then make decisions based off of it. And it's interesting, because so many times we hear business leaders and executives that want to go with their gut. They want to go with their gut over going with what the data presents. It's kind of the old mindset, the old way of doing things. But in order for business owners, business leaders, to not just avoid risk but benefit from the changing business environment, they've got to leverage information and allow it to inform them on the decisions they make for their organizations. They can't continue to just fall back on their "gut", because the gut, as Al mentioned, is based off of years of evolution where we had a saber- toothed tiger lurking around the corner, and so we were scared of everything.

00:13:23

Alix McCabe: So using data, arming yourself with information to help disrupt the negative thought pattern.

00:13:28

Justin Seedorf: Exactly.

00:13:29

Alix McCabe: Al, anything to add?

00:13:30

Al Herrera: Yeah, I would say a hundred percent agree. It's about education in general and finding situations around you, people around you, that actually challenge your thought. Most often what I find is people don't ask for help at all. They tend to want to go it alone and instead of seeking advice, they'll stay put and they'll stay in the fixed mindset versus big- time growth and what could occur in them if they actually seek outside of what they currently know. And that's typically what I find with so- called experts in some areas is like, "Hey, we've been there, done that." And it's like, "Times are changing. You have AI, you either grow with the times or you get left behind."

00:14:18

Alix McCabe: So I'd like to try a quick thought experiment. Okay? If you're up for it, I will lay out a few scenarios, and without naming any names, I want you to identify the risk and the potential reward. Does that sound okay to you both?

00:14:31

Justin Seedorf: Yes. Sounds wonderful.

00:14:32

Al Herrera: Sounds great. I'm excited.

00:14:34

Alix McCabe: All right. So our first scenario, let's say you're an aerospace supplier and you get a lucrative contract offer from one of the largest airline manufacturers in the US. What do you need to weigh before you respond?

00:14:47

Justin Seedorf: Good question, because there's a lot of variables here. But anytime a smaller parts supplier or technology supplier gets a big opportunity with a well- known, maybe large company that everybody wants to do business with, their first response is, we got to take the contract, we got to do whatever we can to make this happen. But there are so many things that could impact your company's ability to fulfill that contract. So can we actually source the materials needed profitably enough in order to fulfill that contract? Do the manufacturing, maintain inventory levels, handle logistics? Do we know for sure that this manufacturer is going to be operationally viable for the long term? What are the potential risks that I'm not seeing? And have I taken the proper mitigants in order to be very confident in going after that contract so that if something does happen, I'm protected on the back end?

00:15:49

Alix McCabe: Anything to add, Al? I mean, I know we're not aerospace suppliers, but what are your thoughts?

00:15:54

Al Herrera: The only two thoughts I went to instantly was scalability of the infrastructure that I currently have. Looking at that first, because I got to look internal before I look external. And then I would look at some of the things that they forecasted in the past and their accuracy with their growth, so that whatever it is that I'm supplying them, first of all, that we're going to be able to fill the requests that they've had and they've been dead accurate in the past, so I can go with their future forecast to be able to fulfill whatever order they put in. And then, obviously, I'd look externally at other partners they've had in the past, to look at what they've done with those partners and how long they've been partners as well from a vendor perspective, just to see, okay, are they burning through them quickly? Is there a particular reason? And so I can ask additional questions to find out some of their history with vendors in general.

00:16:42

Alix McCabe: Great answers, guys. Moving on to our next scenario. We're going to now pretend that you're the CEO of a major international video rental chain. Remember video rental chains. What if a small tech company that's pitching something called streaming wants to acquire you?

00:16:59

Al Herrera: Well, if I'm close- minded, I'm going to say no immediately, 'cause I think I am the giant of videos and in actuality, being the market leader sometimes does put blinders on. But I think from my perspective, I would look at what it is that they're proposing overall, dig into the technology a little bit and try it myself to kind of get an understanding, get a team of people that understand technology really well, and the viability of it, and then make a decision based on what it is that's being proposed rather than just turning the blinders on and thinking, "I'm the man."

00:17:35

Alix McCabe: Justin?

00:17:36

Justin Seedorf: The first thing that comes to mind is disruptive. The entertainment space, the movie rental space was absolutely disrupted, and very quickly, by streaming technology. And we've seen that play out in other industries as well. I think of photography and cameras and things like that. But where the technology changes so quickly, there is a legacy organization that feels like they're the 800 pound gorilla and that they're too big to be disrupted. That usually doesn't end well for the legacy organization. And I think that you have to harken back to some of our earlier conversations where it's the fear of loss versus hope for gains, right?

 

That CEO making that decision probably thought there's nothing to gain for us taking this opportunity because he had a fixed mindset on what had happened in the past. I don't feel like he was really letting the data, that was available to him to be clear, really inform his decision- making and to actually consider some of those options that probably would've ultimately saved his company. I think we all know who we're referring to, and I think there was one left.

00:18:45

Alix McCabe: What?

00:18:45

Justin Seedorf: Yeah. There's one left. And listen, I'm a nostalgic guy and that was my Friday night, was spent walking-

00:18:55

Alix McCabe: Me too.

00:18:55

Justin Seedorf: ... through, you had the new releases, and then you had the action and adventure, and you could get two for $ 4, right? It was a great deal. My kids do not understand the concept of rewind. There's nothing in their life they've ever had to rewind.

00:19:12

Alix McCabe: No.

00:19:12

Justin Seedorf: Right? Remember that?

00:19:14

Al Herrera: Absolutely.

00:19:14

Justin Seedorf: Be kind, rewind, right?

00:19:16

Alix McCabe: My kids don't understand commercials, so there's that.

00:19:21

Justin Seedorf: That's true.

00:19:21

Al Herrera: That's true.

00:19:21

Alix McCabe: All right, that was a good one. Last scenario for us, okay? Identifying potential risk and reward. Let's say you run a $ 20 million fulfillment company that deals in cleaning products and you get a request from a major retailer and all you have to go on is that company's online presence. Sounds risky. How do you find the opportunity in that?

00:19:44

Justin Seedorf: First and foremost, you got to keep in mind, everybody puts their best foot forward online, right? Think about your social media feed. Nobody ever really posts real life stuff. It's always like, "Oh, look at me, I'm at the beach. I'm up in the mountains. Look at my amazing meal I just made." When 99% of the time it's mac and cheese and beanie weenies.

00:20:06

Alix McCabe: Chicken nuggets.

00:20:07

Justin Seedorf: Exactly. So if you're making all of your decisions just based off of a company's online presence, yeah, that is risky. But you know what? Flip the script. What if it's a company you've never heard of and all you have to go on is their online presence? You might actually miss out on maybe what could be a really lucrative contract to take on doing business with a big retailer that has a great online presence, but behind the scenes their financials are falling apart and that could end up costing you both financially and from a time perspective.

00:20:39

Alix McCabe: Al, any thoughts?

00:20:40

Al Herrera: Yeah, I think in this day and age where online presence is the shiny object sometimes, I think it is looking to find out who individuals have partnered with, what reviews, if any. The web is full of things and being able to search and dig and follow the trail, sometimes will tell you a lot about an organization. But signing a contract with someone just based on online presence seems like a bit of a blind risk to me that I might hold off and see if I can be patient with that process before inking a deal.

00:21:14

Alix McCabe: Guys, I have really enjoyed this round. Thank you for your wonderful answers. I'm now calculating the points. Okay?

00:21:21

Justin Seedorf: Oh, I feel good about this.

00:21:24

Al Herrera: I'm getting nervous. My negative thoughts just took over.

00:21:26

Alix McCabe: Yeah. Okay. Al, don't let those 80% of your thoughts become... don't give into the 80% negative thoughts.

00:21:34

Justin Seedorf: I'm a winner, baby.

00:21:35

Alix McCabe: I'm going to award you, Al, I'm going to award you 700 points.

00:21:40

Al Herrera: Nice.

00:21:40

Justin Seedorf:Whoa.

00:21:41

Alix McCabe: Okay. They're completely arbitrary.

00:21:43

Al Herrera: I like it.

00:21:43

Alix McCabe: But you get 700 of them. Justin, I'm also giving you 700 points.

00:21:50

Justin Seedorf: Amazing. Tie. A tie.

00:21:52

Alix McCabe: So we're at an exact tie, but don't worry, there's still time to pull ahead.

00:21:56

Justin Seedorf: Ooh, a tiebreaker. Are we going to wrestle?

00:21:58

Alix McCabe:Well, you're not going to wrestle, but we are going to do something fun. Welcome to the Lightning Round. We wanted to go with Thunderdome, but that was taken. I'm going to share three true stories with you of someone who turned a risk or a problem into an opportunity. And then you both have to guess which company or product I'm talking about. Okay?

00:22:21

Al Herrera: I'm up for it. I'm down.

00:22:24

Alix McCabe: Question number one; Nick Woodman was on a surf trip to Australia and Indonesia and got frustrated that he and his friends couldn't snap any decent action shots. He went on to create A, the Fujix DS-1P, the world's first fully digital camera, B, the GoPro, C, image stabilization, or IS, or D, the Parrot AR drone. What do we think?

00:22:53

Al Herrera: B, GoPro.

00:22:55

Justin Seedorf: That's my initial response too. I think it's B. Although if I had to pick a second, I would say D.

00:23:01

Alix McCabe: You can't pick two answers here, Justin. Just...

00:23:04

Justin Seedorf: I feel like I just did. I'm strong with B. I'm 60% B, so that's a majority. So that's good, B.

00:23:11

Alix McCabe: Okay. No, that's fair. All right. You're both correct. It is the GoPro.

00:23:14

Justin Seedorf: Yes.

00:23:16

Al Herrera: Good job, J.

00:23:17

Alix McCabe: Here's a fun fact. GoPro was started in 2002, originally named Woodman Labs. Okay, less catchy. And eventually made a drone, but that was discontinued after about two years. Now we've learned something. Ready for question number two?

00:23:31

Justin Seedorf: Yes.

00:23:33

Alix McCabe: Jan Koum bought an iPhone in 2009. He realized the potential market for mobile apps and apparently was irritated after missing too many calls at the gym. So he went on to co- found A, Skype, B, WhatsApp, C, Instagram, or D, ICQ, does anyone remember ICQ?

00:23:57

Al Herrera: I don't remember that one. That one's out for me. I'm selecting B.

00:24:01

Justin Seedorf: This is the second time I'm going to copy Al, but not because I'm copying Al, but because I truly in my gut feel like it's the right answer, which is also B, WhatsApp.

00:24:10

Alix McCabe: Okay, but you said before not to go with your gut. Remember this?

00:24:11

Justin Seedorf: Yeah, but also-

00:24:14

Al Herrera: Did you phone a friend?

00:24:15

Justin Seedorf: ... so when I took multiple choice tests, I usually didn't know the answer. I just knew what wasn't the answer. And that's what I did here.

00:24:23

Al Herrera: See?

00:24:24

Alix McCabe: Process of elimination. Okay, this time your gut was right, Justin, it is B, WhatsApp, which was acquired in 2014 for $ 1. 9 billion.

00:24:34

Al Herrera: Well, I made a killing.

00:24:36

Justin Seedorf: Yawn. You think he still goes to the gym and misses calls?

00:24:40

Alix McCabe: I wonder. He probably has a gym at his place.

00:24:42

Al Herrera: I think he's good.

00:24:42

Alix McCabe: He's good.

00:24:45

Al Herrera: Pretty sure he's got that taken care of.

00:24:47

Alix McCabe: All right, number three. Austrian businessman, Dietrich Mateschitz, was battling a bad case of jet lag on a trip to Thailand in the early '80s when he tried a local invention that really helped, and he went on to found A, Natrol, maker of melatonin supplements, B, pillow company, Tempur- Pedic, C, beverage maker, Red Bull, or D, Nidra, maker of the Deep Rest Eye Mask.

00:25:17

Justin Seedorf: I know this one.

00:25:18

Alix McCabe: Justin, you're going to have to answer first so you can't copy.

00:25:21

Justin Seedorf: Well, Mr. Mateschitz is definitely the maker of Red Bull and it does give you wings.

00:25:28

Alix McCabe: Al, did you agree?

00:25:31

Al Herrera: I will concur. Only because the inflection in Alix's voice when she read C.

00:25:37

Alix McCabe: Oh, so it was like a tell?

00:25:38

Al Herrera: Yeah, yeah.

00:25:39

Alix McCabe: You really are a clarity expert. Okay. It is C, beverage maker, Red Bull, which I am sad to say, I still will partake in some Red Bull. Red Bull went on to become the third most valuable soft drink brand in the world. So Dietrich was onto something there. Amazing work, guys. We do have a winner. Hang on, I'm just going to check with my producer. Drum roll, please. Al, congratulations, you are our first winner of the season.

00:26:09

Al Herrera: Thank you. Thank you.

00:26:10

Alix McCabe: I see Justin shaking his head.

00:26:13

Al Herrera: I'm excited. I would like to thank Justin.

00:26:17

Justin Seedorf: Well, you're welcome. But I'd like a recount. I think there were some hanging chads that weren't counted.

00:26:24

Alix McCabe: There could have been, but listen, you have been a really good sport, and because of that and because I'm such a good host and a nice host, I will offer you both one last chance to sum up your takeaways from this episode. Okay. So Al, since you're our winner, by a landslide by the way, you can go first. Let's put 30 seconds on the clock. Okay, Al, any key takeaways from our discussion that you'd like to share with our listeners?

00:26:48

Al Herrera: Yeah, key takeaways for me are that just because you haven't been there, seen it, or done it, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist and it can't be an awesome opportunity. So inspect every opportunity, get educated, challenge your beliefs and go into it with a growth mindset, so that you can come out on the other side with a great decision on how to move forward.

00:27:12

Alix McCabe: Thank you so much. Justin, you also get 30 seconds despite losing today. What is the main thing you'd like our listeners to remember about eureka moments and reframing risk?

00:27:24

Justin Seedorf: Yeah, so Al talked about challenging beliefs and I think he led off by saying just because you haven't been there, haven't done it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and it's not a great opportunity. And I would actually kind of piggyback off of that, but I would say just because you have been doing it a certain way doesn't mean it's actually the best way to do it. And you don't want to be blinded to opportunity that exists outside of what you do know. And so be open to more information, more data, because ultimately, if you're not moving forward, then you're stagnant and you're dying and that is where nobody wants to be.

00:28:07

Alix McCabe: So basically the real risk is avoiding opportunities in the first place.

00:28:11

Justin Seedorf: Yes. I like that.

00:28:13

Al Herrera: Like it.

00:28:13

Alix McCabe: Thanks, guys. Thank you. Oh, my. There's music and that means unfortunately we are out of time. It has been an absolute blast talking with you both. Thank you so much for being here to help me kick off Season 3.

00:28:26

Al Herrera: It was a pleasure. I enjoyed it immensely.

00:28:29

Justin Seedorf: Thank you.

00:28:29

Alix McCabe: Justin, will you come back even though you lost?

00:28:32

Justin Seedorf: I will because I do have to redeem myself. I'm a terrible loser by the way.

00:28:38

Alix McCabe: My guests today have been leadership coach and clarity expert, Al Herrera, and Justin Seedorf, Regional Vice President at Allianz Trade Americas. I'm Alix McCabe and this is Wheel of Risk, brought to you by Allianz Trade. Thank you so much for listening to our Season 3 premiere. If you learned something, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave us a nice review wherever you get your podcasts. Talk to you soon.